Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly < Last Thread | Next Thread > Controlla questo argomento Nuovo argomento Rispondi dxarmy.com sp1200 forum > SP Everyday Use Author Thread JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly Rispondi citando Something important on the sp is to remember sampling in tune, or sampling at higher speeds that still fall on perfect semitones, because the sp has no fine tune. I wrote this for mpc-forums and everybody blew it off: Someone had asked how much they should pitch a sound down to get it back to normal pitch. Check it out: The easiest way to test this is using a middle C sine test record, with the addition of a guitar tuner. (If you do not have a test tone record, but you have serato, use soundforge or any other program to make a middle C tone wave file, and load that into serato). With the record playing at 0% 33 rpm, the guitar tuner should hold a solid C. When I use my old samplers like my sp-1200, I have no option for fine tune. The sp-1200 only pitches in semitones(halfsteps) with no way to fine tune. So if you sample out of tune, every note will be out of tune. Being that need to sample in fast to save as much sample time, here is what I do: Put the turntable on 45 rpm, and using the guitar tuner, go up and down the pitch control (technics 1200) finding the highest speed that gives a *solid semitone* meaning the guitar tuner should be holding still on semitone X, X#, etc. It should not be teetering between two half steps, for example, going back and forth hunting between F and F# (a little sharp or a little flat). You don't want to take a sample and have your sample inbetween two half steps, because then you have to deal with fine tuning, etc. Waste of time. On a technics 1200 turntable that *has a pitch control in GOOD CONDITION*, you will find that about +4.5% on 45rpm will give you the highest speed on 45 rpm that still falls onto a solid semitone. This translates to a F# (remember, 0% 33 rpm was middle C). F# is 6 semitones up from C. So if I sample a record (considering the original players had their instruments all tuned), I know that I can sample in at 45 rpm +4.5% and pitch it back down 6 semitones (-6) and be right back in tune with the original record. When I add synths, keys, or play live bass to my sampled beats, I never have to bother using fine pitch adjustment. Keep in mind this works on MY 1200's. My 1200's are matched to each other so when I rock doubles, I KNOW that 7% on one table is 7% on the another table. I haven't done it with my Vestax tables. I recommend everyone use a tuner and see what works with THEIR turntables. If you have dirty turntables, or if your pitch controls are not calibrated properly, my values will NOT work for you. Find a strobe tuner, like a Peterson, if possible. Most accurate IMO. Somebody will probably say "wtf is this guy talking about" but anyone who has tuned an instrument knows what I am talking about when I say a a tune can be sitting in between two semitones (out of tune, a bit sharp or flat). If the band/record you are sampling was too lazy to tune their instruments before they started recording, then you are **** outta luck and you need to deal with fine tuning. LOL. If you have people play music over your tracks (session players), they will appreciate you doing this. If you sample at normal speeds, don't worry about it. P.S. I always see people using fine tune (doesn't apply to the sp-1200) in order to make a loop fit. That technique is garbage. Make the track a little faster or slower. Don't mess with the pitch if you know it is in tune. Or chop the loop into pieces and play it back in time so it fits properly. Messaggio Mer Set 30, 2009 8:26 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM Drinks SpUser Registrato: 12/07/07 08:57 Messaggi: 402 Rispondi citando Very nice. Relies on: 1. The recording being at concert pitch (A = 440Hz) 2. Your turntable to be at clocked at 50 cycles per second. KAB do a mod for the technics to ensure just this. Thanks for the lengthy post. _________________ www.myspace.com/djdrinks Messaggio Lun Ott 05, 2009 4:58 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage Drinks SpUser Registrato: 12/07/07 08:57 Messaggi: 402 Rispondi citando Drinks ha scritto: 50 cycles per second.. That'll be 60 cycles in the USA. _________________ www.myspace.com/djdrinks Messaggio Lun Ott 05, 2009 4:59 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando Drinks ha scritto: Very nice. Relies on: 1. The recording being at concert pitch (A = 440Hz) 2. Your turntable to be at clocked at 50 cycles per second. KAB do a mod for the technics to ensure just this. Thanks for the lengthy post. Excellent point Drinks. It's true. This does assume that the band had their instruments tuned, and did use the standard 440Hz tuning Messaggio Mer Ott 07, 2009 6:10 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM RHYTHMONSTER SpUser Registrato: 22/02/07 07:20 Messaggi: 358 Rispondi citando I don't have serato but great post Jae. Messaggio Lun Ott 12, 2009 10:14 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato Invia e-mail HomePage Deck Daddy SpUser Registrato: 15/07/07 15:34 Messaggi: 120 Residenza: www.deckdaddybeats.blogspot.com Rispondi citando Yo, that's why you get a deck with a 50% pitch! 6 steps down in the SP is not a very good way to get the maximum out of those 10 sec. sampling time. I found out how to get correct pitch out of my deck by doing it this way: sample a record at the regular 33 speed, and pitch it up in the sampler, and finally match the pitch with you'r turntable. Or pitch up in another sampler/computer to get the MAXIMUM out of the SP. Very often records are a little out of tune, so you'll really have to check each time you are going to sample that it's in perfect pitch if you are going to play along with it without tuning additional instruments to the SP. I have (at least until now) never cared about "correct pitch" of the sample in the beat, rather just tuning the bass/synth/additional samples to the beat afterwards. No big hazzle to me. _________________ www.deckdaddybeats.blogspot.com Messaggio Sab Ott 17, 2009 4:47 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato peterpiper0815 SpUser Registrato: 27/03/08 14:46 Messaggi: 114 Rispondi citando I always thought I'll have to pitch down exactly 5 semitones to get a 45 sample back to original. It hit me like a hammer when I realized (just last week) that it has to be -5 semitones AND -20 cent. Put me in a strange mood "what have I heard the last 20 years Confused Sad " ok I use the 45 technique since 2 years but I was shocked never the less. So the best advise is to listen to Jae. Thank you! peace Messaggio Sab Ott 17, 2009 6:04 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando Deck Daddy ha scritto: Yo, that's why you get a deck with a 50% pitch! 6 steps down in the SP is not a very good way to get the maximum out of those 10 sec. sampling time. I found out how to get correct pitch out of my deck by doing it this way: sample a record at the regular 33 speed, and pitch it up in the sampler, and finally match the pitch with you'r turntable. Or pitch up in another sampler/computer to get the MAXIMUM out of the SP. Very often records are a little out of tune, so you'll really have to check each time you are going to sample that it's in perfect pitch if you are going to play along with it without tuning additional instruments to the SP. I have (at least until now) never cared about "correct pitch" of the sample in the beat, rather just tuning the bass/synth/additional samples to the beat afterwards. No big hazzle to me. As I said already, this is for folks with technics 1200s. The values would be very different if I used the extended pitch on my vestax pdx 2000. 6 steps may not be enough for you, but it is fine for me. 45rpm +4.5% vs 45rpm +8% is not enough of a big deal to make me not use it (45 rpm +4.5%). I still get plenty of time, especially when paired with my s950 or mpc. I do just fine without having to pitch up in software, etc first. I just keep it simple this process. It's not a big hassle unless u start hiring folks to come in and play over your stuff and none of your music is at a a standard 440 tuning. I don't wanna tune my motif , then tune my bass guitar, then tune my synth, etc to some off tune setting to get it to match a sample that is out of tune. In regards to records often being out of tune, yea I mentioned it: "If the band/record you are sampling was too lazy to tune their instruments before they started recording, then you are **** outta luck and you need to deal with fine tuning. LOL." To each his own. Like I said before, some people are whatever about this. It may help some other folks though. But anyways, the -5 trick for 45 rpm 0% is wrong. Messaggio Gio Ott 22, 2009 9:50 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM thx SpUser Registrato: 17/11/08 12:33 Messaggi: 145 sp tuning Modifica/Cancella messaggio Rispondi citando thanks a lot! i've tried with my technics 1210 the tuning trick with the "superstereo test record del phase 6 superstereo", with a 1000hz frequency and the "tune it!" vst plugin tuner - http://tuneit.free.fr/Site/Home.html Smile _________________ http://writers-connection.noblogs.org/ Messaggio Ven Ott 23, 2009 7:53 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage DFACE DXA admin Registrato: 26/01/06 04:22 Messaggi: 1303 Residenza: BRONX NYC Rispondi citando deck?sample the sound before to figure out the picth? thanks jaeone for droppin some knowledge _________________ http://soundcloud.com/dxarecords/ http://everybodyandtheymomma.blogspot.com/ Messaggio Sab Ott 24, 2009 11:04 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage Speedy33rpm SpUser Registrato: 21/10/10 17:42 Messaggi: 2 Rispondi citando Hello, somebody has make the test with a pitch 50 % ? SP1200 can detune up to 8 semitones. What turntable do you recommend me to be able to save most memory and have solid semitones ? I do not make scratchs or mix, but y search a very precise pitch. Thank you in advance and saddened for the faults, I use a translator. Messaggio Gio Ott 21, 2010 5:49 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato 10SECONDASSASSIN SpUser Registrato: 27/02/10 07:04 Messaggi: 39 Rispondi citando Jae - check ur PM's bro - I sent you a message!! PBODY _________________ www.myspace.com/10secondassassin www.myspace.com/fyc Messaggio Lun Ott 25, 2010 3:07 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando sorry I don't really post here much so I rarely log in. I come by and read all the time, but I don't sign in. I just opened like 15 PMs I never saw over the past few years hahah. Messaggio Sab Ott 30, 2010 11:57 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM DRUMAT!C SpUser Registrato: 27/01/06 00:05 Messaggi: 292 Residenza: Philadelphia Rispondi citando Donno if I'm doing it right or not, but I sample at 45 +6.2 on my turntable; that gives me as close to perfect pitch as I can get while maximizing the sample time in SP. Just follow the guide on the TECH 1210. The smallest steady circle in the red light will let you know your turntable is solid! It says 45+6 // but my deck's pitch adjust is off a touch...At least it seems ok for me. But quite honestly... the SP is a sloppy sampler, so if you want samples to have dissonance experiment and have fun. +drumz.1 _________________ ++ DRUMAT!C shop@kicdrumproducts.com //////////////////////// AVAILABLE SOON -- 2010 SPRING + SUMMER TEES by KicDrum Products Remixed designs, New Colorways + more... Messaggio Lun Nov 01, 2010 8:59 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando The problem with that logic is that the +6% does not have anything to do with semitones. It is a speed percentage. Sure, the table is holding at a solid speed percentage, but that doesn't mean it is sped up on a solid semitone. This logic doesn't work unless u know for sure what the percentage increase is when translated into semitones. Like I said, if folks never add anything over their beats in terms of instrumentation, have a live player come in etc, and then well yea, sample everything at same fastest speed and you won't have an issue. But when you start callin' cats in to play over something, or you play over it, etc, it becomes necessary. And deck daddy, I am sorry but tuning every other instrument to a single instrument that is out of tune is just illogical to me. If everything else is in tune properly, I am gonna focus on the single offending instrument in "the band." If a band shows up and the bassist is out of tune, the band doesn't tune their instruments to the offending bassist. The bassist fixes his instrument. Dissonance can be coo as hell though, but I'm tired of hearin' cats who can't rock basslines properly cause the shit is just totally out of tune. Straight garbage. Messaggio Lun Nov 01, 2010 1:50 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM Nuovo argomento Rispondi { Mark topics read } Forum Jump: Vai a: Vai a 1, 2 Successivo Tutti i fusi orari sono GMT + 1 ora. La data di oggi è Sab Gen 01, 2011 5:46 pm Mostra prima i messaggi di: Card File Gallery Arcade (BETA) Powered by phpBB: © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group Template created by The Fathom Based on template of Nick Mahon Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum DXARMY.COM --- page 2 FAQ Profile Search Members Groups PM's Register Login/Out Donate to our new server appeal. Sampling at higher speeds (45 rpm etc) properly < Last Thread | Next Thread > Controlla questo argomento Nuovo argomento Rispondi dxarmy.com sp1200 forum > SP Everyday Use Author Thread sumo SpUser Registrato: 19/05/07 20:35 Messaggi: 14 Rispondi citando Very interesting read, thanks Jae. Messaggio Mer Nov 03, 2010 3:58 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando Speedy33rpm ha scritto: Hello, somebody has make the test with a pitch 50 % ? SP1200 can detune up to 8 semitones. What turntable do you recommend me to be able to save most memory and have solid semitones ? I do not make scratchs or mix, but y search a very precise pitch. Thank you in advance and saddened for the faults, I use a translator. If you use the default decay/tune option you can actually detune an entire octave (-12). The bar graph in the display will drop lower but after awhile it stops having an effect on the pitch. The audible limit in change you will hear is a full octave. I'm not really into sampling into other samplers or computers first. If I sample into my duet/macbook it stays there. If I am gonna use my SP, I sample into it. Using 45 rpm plus *my* +4.5% pitch adjustment is more than enough when you consider the fact my sp-1200 is paired with an s950. Messaggio Mer Nov 03, 2010 8:14 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM Speedy33rpm SpUser Registrato: 21/10/10 17:42 Messaggi: 2 Rispondi citando Thank you very much for your message. The problem it is because I have only a SP1200, anything else, then I want to save the maximum of memory and have solid semi-tones. The technique 45 rpm + pitch 4.5 % is just for me. Messaggio Gio Nov 04, 2010 8:43 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato DRUMAT!C SpUser Registrato: 27/01/06 00:05 Messaggi: 292 Residenza: Philadelphia Rispondi citando found a nice article on adjusting and tuning the pitch on your Technic 1210 turntable... hope this has relevance to the conversation. http://audioandlighting.blogspot....-1210-pitch-fluctuation-zero.html This is a technical post so those of you that are faint hearted please give us or your local repair centre a call. Also this process involves removing two covers from your Technics and hence exposing bare connections to electrical terminals potentially at mains voltage. The fabulous 1200 MKII and 1210 Mk II DJ turntables from technics are like a reliable car they go on and on as long as you look after them. The pitch is one of the most common things to start causing you problems and is of course crucial to any DJ who is beat matching. When your turntable starts slipping its pitch or takes the occasional crazy you must get it sorted out or risk looking like a beginner when out playing your latest set. There is of course the possibility that you need something replaced ( I will touch on this at the end) by an experienced technician and the process of setting up you pitch is something that does require specialist test equipment and an understanding of all things technical. Lets Get started. You need to turn off the power to your turntable and remove the plug from the wall. Remove the platter by placing one finger in each hole and pulling directly upward. This can be quite tricky and you must make sure to pull straight upwards with equal force so as not to damage the central spindle. Under the platter you will find there is a black vented panel held doen by about five philips screws. Undo these to reveal the motor and control board. The area will look a bit like this but with lots more colourful components (just the ones you need to know about are here). To make this adjustment you will need a frequency meter that is acurate to two decimal places at a up to 500kHZ range. Most good multimeters will give this functionality. Set you pitch fader to the zero position and ensure the green light lights up. Place the two probes of you meter on the two test points marked in red and have a small philips screw driver ready to adjust the pitch control adjustment VR301. ENSURE THAT YOU ARE WELL CLEAR OF THE POWER SECTION OF THE UNIOT TO THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE BOARD SHOWN ABOVE. No you need to plug in the unit and turn the power on using the power on knob. Your meter should hope fully read something around 260kHz. Adjust the Variable resistor (VR301) until you achieve 262.08kHZ plus or minus 0.05kHz Turn off the power and re-assemble the unit. You turntables pitch has now been correctly calibrated to the zero point of you pitch slider. This is important so that your tunes play at the right speed but can also cause problems at the extremities of th pitch fader if the value is to far away from the nominal value. The next step is to adjust your pitch variance which I will come back to in a future post _________________ ++ DRUMAT!C shop@kicdrumproducts.com //////////////////////// AVAILABLE SOON -- 2010 SPRING + SUMMER TEES by KicDrum Products Remixed designs, New Colorways + more... Messaggio Sab Nov 06, 2010 4:33 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM Deta!L SpUser Registrato: 27/01/06 05:17 Messaggi: 365 Rispondi citando nice find Drumz...frequency meters are expensive though! I have a nice voltmeter, is that the same thing? dumb question maybe (probably) I'm about to go check my voltmeter and see what it's capable of. _________________ 3. Fruity Loops does a nice job of chopping or slicing up the beat for me. Messaggio Sab Nov 06, 2010 9:16 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato peterpiper0815 SpUser Registrato: 27/03/08 14:46 Messaggi: 114 Rispondi citando Deta!L ha scritto: nice find Drumz...frequency meters are expensive though! I have a nice voltmeter, is that the same thing? dumb question maybe (probably) I'm about to go check my voltmeter and see what it's capable of. The big frequency meters are expensive right but there are some multimeters that can measure the frequency and they cost (here in Germany) 30+ Euro. I got a multimeter without this feature. Mybe have more luck. peace Messaggio Sab Nov 06, 2010 11:47 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando The pitch info is fine. It is good to match two decks, make sure you have true zero, only one zero, and that the pitch slider increments are in agreement with the strobe dot values for each speed.. but..that is an entirely different issue from semitones. Just because your turntable holds true at 0, 3.3, and 6 percent does not mean that you are taking samples from solid semitone amounts. 1 percentage increase of a 33/45rpm speed value does NOT equal 1 semitone on a keyboard, etc. These are two entirely differently reference scales with entirely different purposes. Messaggio Dom Nov 07, 2010 6:19 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM keys3000 SpUser Registrato: 03/10/10 23:20 Messaggi: 26 Residenza: L.A. Rispondi citando Citazione: If a band shows up and the bassist is out of tune, the band doesn't tune their instruments to the offending bassist. The bassist fixes his instrument. Dissonance can be coo as hell though, but I'm tired of hearin' cats who can't rock basslines properly cause the shit is just totally out of tune. Straight garbage. Properly stated. Basslines that don't add up ain't workin no matter how rugged or gritty the beat _________________ "All I see is blinkin lights, track boards and fat mics, 950's, SP12's, MP 60's" Messaggio Sab Nov 13, 2010 1:31 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato Deta!L SpUser Registrato: 27/01/06 05:17 Messaggi: 365 Rispondi citando if anyone wants to come over to the crib and tune my SL1200 and Sp1200 together so I can sample at higher speeds holler at your boy, I'll buy you a beer This stuff sounds complicated...I can hook yall up with finance advice or something haha _________________ 3. Fruity Loops does a nice job of chopping or slicing up the beat for me. Messaggio Sab Nov 13, 2010 2:23 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato JaeOne3345 SpUser Registrato: 06/03/06 22:17 Messaggi: 46 Rispondi citando It's quite simple brotha. Get a test tone. It should hold perfect at C or whatever other note when on 33 rpm 0%. Use a guitar tuner and put the turntable on 45rpm. Find the highest maximum speed that is not that sharp or flat (one that holds steady on solid semitone/note). Done. Your technics turntable does NOT need to be calibrated to the pitch scale next to the knob IF you take the time to figure the fastest solid semitone is for YOUR table. Messaggio Sab Nov 13, 2010 4:00 am Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage AIM lunatic SpUser Registrato: 25/02/10 19:03 Messaggi: 30 Residenza: Germany Rispondi citando I use audacity to speed my samples up, since i sample everything in the computer first. Since the SP-12(00) pitched only full semitones, the following might help: 4 Semitones -> Speed Up 125,99% 8 Semitones -> Speed Up 158,74& 12 Semitones -> Speed Up 200,00% 16 Semitones -> Speed Up 251,98% 16 Semitones is the most the SP can do (Range Mode to LOW) and even that sometimes makes sense (ie. beatloop that you reprogramm the single hits anyway) Messaggio Sab Nov 13, 2010 10:15 pm Profilo Invia messaggio privato HomePage Nuovo argomento Rispondi { Mark topics read } Forum Jump: Vai a: Vai a Precedente 1, 2 Tutti i fusi orari sono GMT + 1 ora. La data di oggi è Sab Gen 01, 2011 5:48 pm Mostra prima i messaggi di: Card File Gallery Arcade (BETA) Powered by phpBB: © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group Template created by The Fathom Based on template of Nick Mahon Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum DXARMY.COM